diablo 2 had rogue like elements, rogue lite and rogue like are really just another term for a game with procederal generation and randomization
I laugh at how people hate “terms” or “genre definitions” its like calling classic rock acid rock or early 90s alt music scene “grunge” or “post alternative” so much goes into definitions, labels (labeling a genre) and so many people hate a label “souls like” or “metroidvania” or “rogue-lite” and OFTEN times i find that they like the games, they just hate the label, so that makes me wonder, are people just idiotic ? or just predetermined when it comes to hearing something “played out” personally ? as an Older gamer who has been gaming for nearly 3 decades, I could give a shit less about rogue this or metroidvania or rogue vania (or any sub-genre label)…what makes Dead Cells Great IS just that the “rogue” aspect, if this was just another pre-set/hand-crafted experience the hours spent would be much much smaller, and the replay value would be much smaller. The rogue aspect of this game = (like Enter the Gungeon, or one of the best known rogue-lite/bullet-hell games The Binding of Isaac, a game in which I’ve put nearly 900 hours)…What is there “not to get” ? the appeal is variety, the appeal is numerous runs, changes (even if subtle) each time, the appeal is NOT spending $60 on a AAA game, and getting 20 hours of content, just to put it down and be done with it rogue lites (and games with RNG/procederal generation) = add MASSIVE replay value, as one review says “with rogue lites, the emphasis is ON ADAPTATION vs memorizing a map” YOU CANT memorize a map if its always changing, if the mobs are scattered randomly, if you dont know what boss your going to encounter (or how the room is laid out before you enter it) sorta like Isaac. That adds a level of anxiousness…I think rogue (or anything) rogue is amazing, I think people HATE the term b/c they are just tired of hearing it, but they dont really…know…why…they…hate…it
I dont GET why PEOPLE dont get the appeal (thats my question) what is there not to get ? cheap game, tons of replay value, lots of variety…hmm…whats not to get ?
I played Diablo 2 & Diablo 2:LOD (for nearly a decade) with friends from work…I worked night-shift for years with aload of stoners…and most of them would say “no variety, no RNG…game has no lasting value” games that have RNG and rogue “elements” generally gain CULT like status
Diablo 2
Binding of Isaac
Dead Cells (and numerous other games)
Cause the developers are always adding new content, more items, weapons, area/arena/room layouts, etc.
Hand-crafted experiences can be great too (case in point: Hollow Knight) a masterpiece. BUT both genres are great for different reasons. After ENOUGH time with a hand-crafted pre-set/linear experience (or hand-crafted pre-set/open ended experience) I am ready to go back to Enter the Gungeon or Binding of Isaac, and my new obsession is Dead cells..and what makes Dead cells great IS what you hate. I dont (again this is just personal taste, opinion) I’m not bashing or criticizing anyone (you are entitled to any opinion you like) but….when someone says “I dont get the appeal of that genre”
I sit confused…thinking to myself…what is there to get ? Its appeal lies IN the root of variety + replay value. Simply put.
If Dead Cells had 10 levels, 10 micro levels, 4 bosses, pre-set, pre-determined, and you beat it…and had no variation in items/enemies/map-layouts, and was just a hand-crafted $25 “dungeon crawler” I don’t think as many players would be playing it (and playing it for AS long) but with the rogue-elements (and RNG elements) we will see DLC content (as Motion Twin has already promised) to further “expand” on the game world, adding new chapters (new biomes) new runes, more bosses, more items (lots of more items)
Diablo, Diablo 2:LOD, and (for that matter) Diablo 3 (though I think Diablo 3 is a better game NOW then when it launched in 2012…especially since getting rid of the Real Money Auction House) – and since the Reaper of Souls expansion…its become alot better over the last 2-3 years…and I’ve put 100s n 100s of hours into that game as well, but it will never compare to Diablo 2…nor have the lasting value (though its doing quite well on its own I guess?) I just think Diablo 2 is a cult-classic…I spent 12-13 years off / on (from 1999 to about 2011/2012) with 100s of characters, level 97s, 98s, 99s, hardcore, hardcore ladder (US east), softcore, softcore ladder, group runs, speed runs, trading/selling accounts, duping gear (before the 1.07 patch) . That game will never be repeated…but its an inspiration to MANY rogue-lites/likes (many of them) including one of the best known (and best selling) Binding of Isaac, which I can HONESTLY say is one of the best games that I’ve played in recent years (and I’ve played alot of games across alot of genres, and both AAA and Indie) I dont JUST like rogue-lites…that is only 1 sub-genre…but…I think the appeal is obvious…its so very obvious. But its not for everyone (and that is fine). To each their own I say…I get the appeal, I enjoy it…and if someone else doesn’t ? oh well. I’m comfortable enough in my own skin at 38 years old, being a long-time/life-long gamer to know what I like and dont like
I hate sports, I hate microtransactions (I DONT GET the appeal of sports IRL or in a game) I dont get the appeal of on-rails shooters, I don’t get the appeal of beat-em-ups…but thats me…I’m sure a good many players would respond with me like “you dont get the appeal of sports games, what are you living under a rock?” LOL but thats how very different we all are.
And personally the real truth is, I dont GET the appeal behind labels…I dont care if its rogue-lite, rogue-like, rogue-asscheeks, if I like it, and its a isometric dungeon crawler/bullet-hell with randomization/RNG then I may very well enjoy it….I like the idea of paying $25-$40 for some indie that I could very well get 100s of 100s of hours out of and RETURN for more…I find myself literally addicted to Dead Cells, and Enter the Gungeon, and Ghost 1.0 and The Binding of Isaac: Afterbirth+….the variations, trying to obtain everything, unlock everything…massive amount of content (and Dead Cells while its new…as far as retail release…though it was in early access for a full year before its recent release)…I can see myself EASILY off/on playing it well into 2019, and beyond. Future DLC & booster packs, content added, and added, and added, we will look back on this in 2 years, and the ROGUE aspects of this game will only intensify adding that much more. and my saying is “the more the merrier” Maybe there is a “over saturation” of these types of games (pixel art, sprite-based rogue-lites/likes, roguevanias, metroidvanias) but you know what…I always say to people complaining…..
LOL YOU DONT have to play them…nobody is forcing you with a gun to your head…I’m tired of bloated AAA developer prices, day 1 broken content, microtransaction galore & generic FPS’s…but thats me ? I dont get the appeal of sitting on a gaming chair, with some over-priced Turtle Beach head-set, listening to tweens screaming at each other as you PEW PEW PEW and hide behind a turret. But…I know millions love it…or at the very least partake in it….such is gaming…but I never bash anyone else for their taste…I dont try to “understand the appeal” to a game. I either LIKE it or DONT LIKE it…its much simpler for me. I love Dead Cells, I love the rogue-aspects, I love the randomization aspects, I cant wait for future content, I also love hand-crafted experiences, platformers, puzzle platformers, metroidvanias, classic 2D platformers, twitch masochistic type platformers (like Super Meat Boy) where its the OPPOSITE…its about MEMORIZING the level, the patterns, where to jump, every little nuance to the level…just WHERE to jump, second by second, millisecond even, where that saw blade is going to fall, where that lava pit is, and how far you can launch meat boy across t he room, and how fast…so you can get the A+ for the level (and yea I’ve 110% golden god that game took me nearly 9 months on my X360). But…Dead Cells & Binding of Isaac are the EXACT opposite…its not about area memorization, or level memorization…cause you wont have the exact same setup with every run, OR stats, OR the layout will be different (granted theres a SET amount of parameters, the variation has its limits) BUT its enough to keep it slightly fresh…and with all those long-to-obtain unlockables, it gives you something to strive for. Adventure mode works in a isometric dungeon crawler like D3:ROS…I dont know if it would work well in this game…the setup, the art-design, its just different 2D rogue-lites and 3D isometric dungeon crawlers aren’t exactly the same, THE only thing they share is the RNG (Randomly generated content, and seed variations) so you get varying stats to the weapons and Attributes (Prefixes/Suffixes).
I LIKE that…color-coded weapons (that have varying stats) which are “created on the fly as it drops” …gives alot of variety and keeps me coming back for weeks/months (potentially years) to see whats next, you have NEVER seen everything in a game like this. It would take quite some time….more time then I even have….with so many games coming out (Hyper Light Drifter Special Edition launching in just a few days in early SEptember…and Smash Bros in December, plus I already got Owlboy, and The Messenger, and Salt and Sanctuary to finish…and with Dead Cells ontop of all that…its just alot of games LOL). But anyway…apologies for my run on (hope it didnt hurt your eyes) but I wasn’t trolling or bashing or criticizing, I was basically just saying I don’t see the big deal…the appeal should be obvious,.. maybe its just not your thing ? thats ok. BUt its kinda like going into a bar and looking at all the guys drinking up on the stools socializing and you walk in and go “eh…I don’t get the appeal of this” and then turn around and go “…ok then leave” lol they get it…you dont. No big deal, plenty of other games and genres for you to enjoy. I will NEVER get the appeal to Sports both online/offline and in person, and I will never get the appeal to Online First Person Shooters, and badges, and unlockable thermal scopes, and slightly faster bullets…and level based Call of Duty online match-making….to me its all the same, and nobody really has a leg up. But…I don’t need to get the appeal…i don’t play those games…so it doesn’t matter to me.
I had one person (this is off topic) but…I had one person in a facebook comment (a group discussion) say “I dont get the appeal with cannabis..cannabis culture, weed smokers, and legalization, and all the hooplah” MAN I could of wrote a huge post…talking about medical patients, and the history of cannabis, and the founding of our country, and being a huge cash crop, I could of went into big detail, but instead I just said “you dont need to get the appeal…you dont like it, stay away from it…no big deal, why do you need to get the appeal, if you dont get the fascination…lol not much I can do about that”
He replied “fair enough” lol On the flip side, I really DONT get the appeal of bars & alcohol….sit on a stool uncomfortably to put a liquid in your mouth, in large quantities over a period of hours only to feel bloated afterwards and piss like a race horse, so you can be dizzy, and sleep with ugly people, and wake up with a pounding head-ache, and regrets….vs I can just take a few hits off a pipe, feel relaxed, yet motivated and…go about my day and function and enjoy it with very little to no side effects (long as I use in moderation) LOL But…hey what do I know? I’m only human
Good day. (PS keep enjoying the game, who cares about the label)